Top Chapter Scores - Last Updated 21/06/2019

PLATFORM: PS3; RELEASE: June 14th 2007
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Top Chapter Scores - Last Updated 21/06/2019

Post by JTB123 » Fri Jun 14, 2019 2:15 pm

Work in progress. Sigma leaderboards are pretty great, the breakdowns mean this should be pretty accurate once completed.

A lot of this was taken from the boards on PS3 and due to how they work may not be up to date. If you know of a score that needs updating and have proof please post :thumb:

Top Chapter Scores For:

Normal

1. Kell - 23,121,983
2. Jryusama - 22,888,075
3. PixelRevolt5 - 22,654,044
4. JTB123 - 22,512,376
5. Cloud98 - 22,400,825
6. Serbarov - 22,337,926
7. Doppleganger10 - 22,330,246
8. Sltkbcu - 22,330,026
9. XxNeCRoCxX - 21,924,072
10. Hyzen - 21,812,593

Chapter 1

1. Jryusama - 605,010
2. PixelRevolt5 - 594,170
3. Kell - 591,310

Chapter 2

1. Cloud98 - 1,008,740
2. Julius-Ruler4 - 1,005,790
3. Kell - 1,002,770

Chapter 3

1. JTB123 - 1,067,966
2. Jryusama - 1,062,775
3. Kell - 1,053,133

Chapter 4

1. Jryusama - 673,110
2. serbarov - 668,940
3. PixelRevolt5 - 667,620

Chapter 5

1. Kell - 767,620
2. PixelRevolt5 - 767,110
3. Jryusama - 767,000

Chapter 6

1. Kell - 870,290
2. jryusama - 847,940
3. PixelRevolt5 - 828,320

Chapter 7

1. jryusama - 1,702,500
2. PixelRevolt5 - 1,687,900
3. serbarov - 1,684,950

Chapter 8

1. Kell - 1,179,850
2. jryusama - 1,162,620
3. PixelRevolt5 - 1,153,500

Chapter 9

1. Kell - 1,490,530
2. jryusama - 1,479,160
3. Cloud98 - 1,466,710

Chapter 10

1. Cloud98 - 725,850
2. jryusama - 720,230
3. Kell - 717,010

Chapter 11

1. jryusama - 1,287,980
2. PixelRevolt5 - 1,273,620
3. serbarov - 1,270,490

Chapter 12

1. Kell - 2,272,790
2. jryusama - 2,272,090
3. PixelRevolt5 - 2,230,060

Chapter 13

1. Kell - 844,880
2. PixelRevolt5 - 802,380
3. JTB123 - 799,710

Chapter 14

1. jryusama - 1,177,320
2. Kell - 1,177,090
3. PixelRevolt5 - 1,142,650

Chapter 15

1. JTB123 - 2,704,210
2. Kell - 2,556,710
3. jryusama - 2,450,580

Chapter 16

1. jryusama - 1,142,970
2. PixelRevolt5 - 1,126,630
3. serbarov - 1,110,880

Chapter 17

1. Kell - 1,128,280
2. jryusama - 1,127,250
3. Cloud98 - 1,120,400

Chapter 18

1. Kell - 2,295,980
2. JTB123 - 2,277,170
3. PixelRevolt5 - 2,239,490

Chapter 19

1. JTB123 - 503,690
2. Cloud98 - 496,900
3. PixelRevolt5 - 490,830

Hard

1. Mistoltin - 24,700,340
2. Cloud98 - 24,245,929
3. Sltkbcu - 23,961,997
4. Hyzen - 23,147,604
5. Bigalski - 23,068,450
6. Kell - 22,359,640
7. DarkFatherTime - 22,356,917
8. Devilsky - 22,132,192
9. Huimin - 21,693,228
10. Spartanninja87 - 21,454,932

Chapter 1

1. Cloud98 - 628,230
2. Mistoltin - 625,140
3. Sltkbcu - 611,470

Chapter 2

1. Mistoltin -1,006,820
2. Cloud98 - 975,040
3. Sltkbcu - 965,710

Chapter 3

1. Mistoltin - 1,119,610
2. Cloud98 - 1,117,309
3. Sltkbcu - 1,103,877

Chapter 4

1. Mistoltin - 699,310
2. Cloud98 - 684,360
3. Sltkbcu - 683,070

Chapter 5

1. Mistoltin - 847,560
2. Cloud98 - 841,580
3. Sltkbcu - 833,950

Chapter 6

1. Cloud98 - 827,110
2. Mistoltin - 826,850
3. Sltkbcu - 817,960

Chapter 7

1. Cloud98 - 1,812,110
2. Mistoltin - 1,803,950
3. Sltkbcu - 1,735,310

Chapter 8

1. Mistoltin - 1,236,530
2. Cloud98 - 1,224,340
3. Sltkbcu - 1,223,490

Chapter 9

1. Mistoltin - 1,599,140
2. Cloud98 - 1,598,100
3. Sltkbcu - 1,573,120

Chapter 10

1. Cloud98 - 719,750
2. Mistoltin - 708,840
3. Sltkbcu - 701,700

Chapter 11

1. Sltkbcu - 1,213,320
2. Mistoltin - 1,201,050
3. Cloud98 - 1,192,140

Chapter 12

1. Mistoltin - 2,929,380
2. Cloud98 - 2,834,000
3. Hyzen - 2,787,650

Chapter 13

1. Mistoltin - 880,440
2. Sltkbcu - 863,040
3. Hyzen - 859,300

Chapter 14

1. Mistoltin - 1,241,650
2. Cloud98 - 1,216,310
3. Hyzen - 1,212,390

Chapter 15

1. Mistoltin - 2,630,600
2. Cloud98 - 2,536,290
3. Hyzen - 2,530,650

Chapter 16

1. Mistoltin - 1,402,660
2. Cloud98 - 1,391,260
3. Sltkbcu - 1,343,710

Chapter 17

1. Mistoltin - 1,191,340
2. Cloud98 - 1,164,240
3. Sltkbcu - 1,131,240

Chapter 18

1. Mistoltin - 2,257,920
2. Sltkbcu - 2,179,760
3. Cloud98 - 2,162,720

Chapter 19

1. JTB123 - 492,590
2. Mistoltin - 491,550
3. Sltkbcu - 491,210


Very Hard


1. Balbaid - 25,451,750
2. PixelRevolt5 - 25,063,350
3. Hyzen - 24,694,928
4. Tomii90 - 24,551,294
5. GuardianMagnus - 24,324,350
6. Cloud98 - 23,889,850
7. DarkFatherTime - 23,829,386
8. Huimin - 23,441,899
9. Bigalski - 23,006,025
10. Devilsky - 22,791,080

Chapter 1

1. Balbaid - 655,010
2. Hyzen - 635,470
3. Cloud98 - 631,940

Chapter 2

1. Balbaid - 991,920
2. PixelRevolt5 - 962,750
3. Tomii90 - 955,320

Chapter 3

1. Balbaid - 1,171,380
2. Hyzen - 1,152,708
3. PixelRevolt5 - 1,142,910

Chapter 4

1. Balbaid - 723,850
2. PixelRevolt5 - 715,210
3. Hyzen - 692,470

Chapter 5

1. Balbaid - 907,370
2. PixelRevolt5 - 900,360
3. Hyzen - 892,880

Chapter 6

1. Balbaid - 835,340
2. PixelRevolt5 - 814,630
3. Hyzen - 798,750

Chapter 7

1. Balbaid - 1,983,560
2. Hyzen - 1,927,650
3. PixelRevolt5 - 1,897,200

Chapter 8

1. GuardianMagnus - 1,210,340
2. Balbaid - 1,185,740
3. PixelRevolt5 - 1,182,780

Chapter 9

1. Balbaid - 1,813,190
2. GuardianMagnus - 1,752,530
3. PixelRevolt5 - 1,746,880

Chapter 10

1. Balbaid - 815,780
2. Hyzen - 775,310
3. GuardianMagnus - 750,910

Chapter 11

1. Balbaid - 1,240,220
2. PixelRevolt5 - 1,213,160
3. Hyzen - 1,162,380

Chapter 12

1. Balbaid - 2,916,080
2. Hyzen - 2,903,660
3. PixelRevolt5 - 2,878,170

Chapter 13

1. PixelRevolt5 - 924,220
2. Hyzen - 889,050
3. GuardianMagnus - 878,390

Chapter 14

1. PixelRevolt5 - 1,277,050
2. Hyzen - 1,272,920
3. Balbaid - 1,269,020

Chapter 15

1. Balbaid - 2,641,250
2. PixelRevolt5 - 2,621,740
3. Hyzen - 2,619,420

Chapter 16

1. PixelRevolt5 - 1,531,300
2. Balbaid - 1,515,950
3. Hyzen - 1,503,460

Chapter 17

1. GuardianMagnus - 1,198,360
2. Hyzen - 1,190,940
3. PixelRevolt5 - 1,183,800

Chapter 18

1. Balbaid - 2,245,590
2. PixelRevolt5 - 2,223,810
3. Tomii90 - 2,180,970

Chapter 19

1. Balbaid - 495,690
2. PixelRevolt5 - 493,100
3. GuardianMagnus - 480,450



Master Ninja

1. Xinrenlalala - 27,207,033
2. Kell - 26,701,729
3. Mistoltin - 26,115,833
4. Tomii90 - 25,769,844
5. Cloud98 - 25,510,061
6. Yeodevil2000 - 25,372,877
7. EndlessMemory - 24,884,010
8. Whereartthoupube - 24,871,591
9. Bigalski - 24,837,400
10. BigunsilvA - 24,683,263

Chapter 1

1. Xinrenlalala - 680,080
2. Kell - 641,980
3. Tomii90 - 614,360

Chapter 2

1. Xinrenlalala - 1,079,140
2. Kell - 1,015,090
3. Mistoltin - 996,090

Chapter 3

1. Xinrenlalala - 1,252,973
2. Kell - 1,226,069
3. Mistoltin - 1,200,883

Chapter 4

1. Tomii90 - 717,120
2. Cloud98 - 686,670
3. Xinrenlalala - 668,910

Chapter 5

1. Xinrenlalala - 1,000,460
2. Kell - 979,540
3. Tomii90 - 964,480

Chapter 6

1. Kell - 857,380
2. Xinrenlalala - 854,130
3. Mistoltin - 845,040

Chapter 7

1. Xinrenlalala - 2,260,850
2. Tomii90 - 1,986,700
3. Cloud98 - 1,960,790

Chapter 8

1. Xinrenlalala - 1,318,610
2. Kell - 1,317,890
3. Mistoltin - 1,253,670

Chapter 9

1. Kell - 2,296,010
2. Mistoltin - 2,220,080
3. Tomii90 - 1,785,010

Chapter 10

1. Xinrenlalala - 766,810
2. Kell - 756,110
3. Cloud98 - 745,090

Chapter 11

1. Xinrenlalala - 1,313,260
2. Kell - 1,277,630
3. Mistoltin - 1,237,330

Chapter 12

1. Xinrenlalala - 3,057,020
2. Kell - 3,024,370
3. Mistoltin - 2,961,420

Chapter 13

1. Xinrenlalala - 951,610
2. Kell - 936,990
3. Mistoltin - 932,040

Chapter 14

1. Xinrenlalala - 1,378,560
2. Kell - 1,368,770
3. Tomii90 - 1,351,760

Chapter 15

1. Xinrenlalala - 3,209,700
2. Mistoltin - 2,722,270
3. Kell - 2,721,440

Chapter 16

1. Xinrenlalala - 1,777,030
2. Kell - 1,711,840
3. Mistoltin - 1,669,030

Chapter 17

1. Xinrenlalala - 1,242,920
2. Kell - 1,209,560
3. Mistoltin - 1,196,380

Chapter 18

1. Xinrenlalala - 2,404,610
2. Kell - 2,366,520
3. Mistoltin - 2,331,840

Chapter 19

1. Xinrenlalala - 495,370
2. Kell - 493,230
3. Tomii90 - 492,810
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Re: Top Chapter Scores - Last Updated 15/06/2019

Post by julius-ruler4 » Sat Jun 15, 2019 3:33 pm

Huh? 27,2 million? Wow, what a player
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Re: Top Chapter Scores - Last Updated 15/06/2019

Post by JTB123 » Sat Jun 15, 2019 4:24 pm

julius-ruler4 wrote:
Sat Jun 15, 2019 3:33 pm
Huh? 27,2 million? Wow, what a player
I'm not 100% sure that score is legit, one chapter is over 500K higher than Kell's run and at that level unless something truly game changing was found it's tough to believe that amount of points was left behind.

I did PM Kell about it so hopefully he'll give some insight on it.

I'm currently looking at MM as well as there's some dodgy stuff there too.
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Re: Top Chapter Scores - Last Updated 15/06/2019

Post by Luckrequired » Sat Jun 15, 2019 4:34 pm

Bah, I wouldn't be surprised. Losers are willing to cheat for the smallest, most insignificant and quite ridiculous honours. It's been done before for high scores. Weed 'em out, guys!
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Re: Top Chapter Scores - Last Updated 15/06/2019

Post by Alhazard » Sat Jun 15, 2019 5:56 pm

Unless I see some vids, I have to agree that Xinrenlalala's score look questionable. 680K on chapter 1?! 1079K on chapter 2?!
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Re: Top Chapter Scores - Last Updated 15/06/2019

Post by JTB123 » Sat Jun 15, 2019 6:32 pm

I was just updating my PS4 and have received a friend request from the current top MM guy, hopefully he can shed some light on this.

I'm hoping something big has been found as it would be perfect timing with all the Sigma stuff I have planned.
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Re: Top Chapter Scores - Last Updated 15/06/2019

Post by kelll » Sat Jun 15, 2019 10:46 pm

I seen some of his videos and it seems legitimate. he does the fiend challenges differently then what me and mistolin did. Not sure about the muramasa bug in chapter 2 though. wonder if that would work in NGB? :ninja:

The top MM guy has a 12.3M EL score, if he had my score he would be over 58M. LANchan would have close to 59M if he had 13M for EL (only has 11M). Can't say if there scores are legitmate or not cause i'm not familiar with Sigma's MM.
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Re: Top Chapter Scores - Last Updated 15/06/2019

Post by Alhazard » Sat Jun 15, 2019 11:11 pm

where are the vids? what murasama bug?

EDIT: Found vids. (https://space.bilibili.com/6931796) Looking at chp 2 now.

EDIT2: I see what you mean about the Murasama bug, not sure what he does but the fight after murasama, he does 11 ET and 1 UT but gets credit for 12 UTs?!
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Re: Top Chapter Scores - Last Updated 15/06/2019

Post by JTB123 » Sun Jun 16, 2019 7:42 am

The current top guy for MM is hopefully going to register here so we can update the MM thread accurately, had no idea the top MN run was on video. Going to have to watch this and see where he gets all the extra points. I'm actually relieved that it's legit and on video to boot, the Sigma boards seem to be pretty good aside from the obvious cheats.
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Re: Top Chapter Scores - Last Updated 15/06/2019

Post by julius-ruler4 » Mon Jun 17, 2019 12:52 pm

I have watched several of his videos about his karma run and I think in his Chapter 1 video he mentioned a TAS.

TAS = Tool Assisted Score-attack or Tool Assisted Speedrun. In this case he maximized his score using an optimal stability of the game. Trying to push even further, would cause the game to crash continuously or get frame skips in the best scenarios.

The score is just too perfect even though some points are left behind. He does mention this over the course of his run. It all seems legit, but I do believe he used a TAS to maximize the potential maximum score.

I cannot express how difficult it is to get even close to such a perfect score. I have to admit that his score videos are pretty impresssive even when done by a TAS. This shows what kind of planning is set ahead of the run itself and chapter breakdown to know what you can expext and how to optimize your score by doing that. All in all, this takes quite a lot of time. As for his chapter 1 video, the scores sometimes don't match, but he did however, probably not recorded, improved his gauntlet score here and there, but forgot to mention where he got his extra points from.

As for the game itself, it has some stability to even use a Tool, though this pushes the console often to its limit.

For those that don't know what a TAS is: A TAS (Tool Assisted Score-attack or Tool Assisted Speedrun), is a piece of software that allows the player to achieve an optimal score or time depending on what game you are playing. This works by using savestates and rerecords that are done by recording gameplay that is slown down to mostly 1 or 2 fps. This makes possible for maximum damage in minimum time or max score in lowest time and efforts possible. Again RNG is a huge factor in this, so it often uses the savestates to manipulate RNG for the most optimal values. When things get done successfully, a savestate is created to save your progress without the need of using excessive resetting or in game savestatues. It makes playing the game much more labor intensive due to slowed down gameplay, but in the end it is worth the effort. To finsish off the explanation here, when you do a TAS, you can always get better scores by using better itteration and algorithms to effectively boost the score even more. This kind of run, however impressive on its own, is then considered not legit as you haven't used your own quick reflexes to maximize output. Though he mentioned it in his videos in chinese, it is quite unclear sometimes what is a potential maximum.

Over the years new strategies have been found to improve scores even more, even using level 1 weapons. But this also allowed TAS runs to be a thing in the modern day.

If you believe I'm extremely sceptical, please don't blame me for this. I'm just analyzing the situation here presented, and look objectively from all different angles. When someone uses a TAS to get a maximum, I do not believe the score should be considered a highscore.

I planned on doing a TAS Karma run on NGB Master Ninja. If I do get a High score, it is not a top score because it is done by a TAS. Let's be honest about it. I remain sceptical that this is done by someone without the reflexes of a god.
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Re: Top Chapter Scores - Last Updated 15/06/2019

Post by JTB123 » Mon Jun 17, 2019 5:51 pm

I have watched the run in full once and I must admit there are certain things that made my doubt it, the run has comments but they're in Japanese I think. Maybe they are explaining what's going on regarding the TAS if that's the case?

It's still a good watch but if it's not actually real it's really bad that score was uploaded over Kells.
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Re: Top Chapter Scores - Last Updated 15/06/2019

Post by julius-ruler4 » Mon Jun 17, 2019 8:14 pm

That is why I've said before that leader boards have to be weeded out
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Re: Top Chapter Scores - Last Updated 15/06/2019

Post by Royta » Tue Jun 18, 2019 8:21 pm

Asked my girlfriend (who is Taiwanese) if it was legit, she noted that the "Tas" part mentioned is in regards to him saying "it could only be improved if through a TAS" or something like that.
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Re: Top Chapter Scores - Last Updated 15/06/2019

Post by JTB123 » Tue Jun 18, 2019 8:30 pm

Royta wrote:
Tue Jun 18, 2019 8:21 pm
Asked my girlfriend (who is Taiwanese) if it was legit, she noted that the "Tas" part mentioned is in regards to him saying "it could only be improved if through a TAS" or something like that.
That's promising then, the player posted on one of my youtube videos recently and he has a channel on there but is located in China and mentioned his network won't let him access this forum which is a real shame.

I'm going to see if there's any way around that as it'd be cool to ask him more in depth about the run. I am really hoping it's real as it would be a shame for the top score on the boards to not be legit.
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Re: Top Chapter Scores - Last Updated 15/06/2019

Post by Alhazard » Wed Jun 19, 2019 12:44 am

well we can test to see if some of the setups he used are reproducable...
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Re: Top Chapter Scores - Last Updated 15/06/2019

Post by julius-ruler4 » Wed Jun 19, 2019 1:18 pm

If the setups he used are indeed reproducable, then I remove my sceptic opinion and accept the score. Though I have to mention, some things are quite crazy. Getting 680k on Chapter 1 (39k higher then kelll's score) is one hell of an achievement.
I actually analysed the entirety of chapter 1. If he didn't use a TAS, then I think you can boost your score even to perhaps 700k using a TAS. this is something that takes Karma Runs to the next level even.
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Re: Top Chapter Scores - Last Updated 15/06/2019

Post by unwary » Wed Jun 19, 2019 9:13 pm

julius-ruler4 wrote:
Wed Jun 19, 2019 1:18 pm
... using a TAS. this is something that takes Karma Runs to the next level even.
I'm not aware of methods of TASing a ps3 game. How would you achieve this considering how early and slow the ps3 emulator is.
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Re: Top Chapter Scores - Last Updated 15/06/2019

Post by julius-ruler4 » Thu Jun 20, 2019 11:39 am

unwary wrote:
Wed Jun 19, 2019 9:13 pm
julius-ruler4 wrote:
Wed Jun 19, 2019 1:18 pm
... using a TAS. this is something that takes Karma Runs to the next level even.
I'm not aware of methods of TASing a ps3 game. How would you achieve this considering how early and slow the ps3 emulator is.
I am well aware of how early it still is for the PS3 emulator. Though modded PS3 consoles can actually install custom software and propably this has been done to get a TAS software installed to try and accumulate a possible maximum.

I cannot stress enough on how hard it is to achieve such a score, even without a TAS. The more I rewatch the run, the less sceptic I become... I have seen how he dealt with several chapters and the 500k increase comes from doing challenges in a different way. A lot of points that were lost hace been acquired in a completely different way then from what is known throughout the years of Ninja Gaidens.
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Re: Top Chapter Scores - Last Updated 15/06/2019

Post by JTB123 » Thu Jun 20, 2019 6:30 pm

I know there's not a ton of MN stuff out there for Sigma but regardless of TAS aspect one thing that really stood out to me was how effectively the early Dabi was utilised. Using it on the zombies for certain parts, saving fights from chapter 6 for it, using it on monk/cat sweet spots.

I'm very likely going to make MN my next run on Sigma as I want to test some of the strategies that are shown here.
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Re: Top Chapter Scores - Last Updated 15/06/2019

Post by julius-ruler4 » Fri Jun 21, 2019 10:56 am

JTB, chapter 2 normal scores are kelll third with 1,002,770 and me second with 1,005,790. Got it on video to prove it.
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Re: Top Chapter Scores - Last Updated 15/06/2019

Post by JTB123 » Fri Jun 21, 2019 5:11 pm

Thanks Julius all updated, have you started your normal run yet?

Koduck's Sigma run is up on YT now for anyone that wants to watch it.

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Re: Top Chapter Scores - Last Updated 21/06/2019

Post by julius-ruler4 » Fri Jun 21, 2019 9:37 pm

I haven't started yet due to my financial situation. Gotta save up for a new ps3
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Re: Top Chapter Scores - Last Updated 21/06/2019

Post by julius-ruler4 » Fri Jul 05, 2019 9:42 am

IMPORTANT UPDATE:

Burning leaf did chapter 2 of his karma run and he was able to use the Muramasa bug in NGB too. I just saw it on bilibili. I'll post his chapter scores in the NGB section in a new topic
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