All things considered, what do you think about NG's story?

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All things considered, what do you think about NG's story?

Post by XNinjaRed » Tue Sep 20, 2016 10:45 pm

So yeah, it's easy to just say that Ninja Gaiden is all about the gameplay and the story is just an excuse to have fights, and in a way it may be true, but if we were to look at the story, the world and it's mythology by itself, what do you people think about it?

Is it really just an excuse plot like so many mainstream people say, or do you disagree and find that there's more to the story than it's given credit for?

Personally I'm actually of the opinion that it has it's pros and cons.
For one, I do like the characters, as simple as they are. There's not much depth, no, but Ryu is a cool character and is pretty much the video game version of classic 90's Ninja characters from the time when Ninja movies were all over the place. Just watch Revenge of the Ninja some time and he's pretty much the character of Sho Kosugi, although I guess younger and more superpowered.
Rachel is decent, I mean in the first Xbox Ninja Gaiden she IS the one who gets the most development, if only because the story and setting of Vigoor is actually more her story than it is Ryu's. Her relationship with Alma was quickly established, her whole motivation of becoming a Fiend Hunter is all to kill Alma and releasing her soul from being a fiend, yadda yadda yadda. The problem with her, and all the other allies when I think about it, is the fact that after their respective games (Momiji with NGDS for example) they... kinda have nothing to do. It's kind of similar to how it happens with Dragon Ball Z, where the main character just becomes more and more overpowered and the side-characters end up becoming totally useless, getting a few token enemies to fight so they won't feel TOO useless.

NGS2 Dev 1: "So, we programmed Momiji, what does she do in the game?"
NGS2 Dev 2: "Uhhh... how about she has to save Sanji, who's been kidnapped?"
NGS2 Dev 1: "Huh? When did THAT happen?"
NGS2 Dev 2: "Uh, well, when the Hayabusa Village got attacked!"
NGS2 Dev 1: "You mean with Genshin? What, is she supposed to fight Genshin? Well, she can't exactly beat Genshin, the game revolves around Ryu vs Genshin."
NGS2 Dev 2: "Uhhh, no, it gets attacked a second time, and Sanji gets kidnapped by a Tengu Warrior."
NGS2 Dev 1: "... The Hayabusa Village..."
NGS2 Dev 2: "Yup."
NGS2 Dev 1: "... Gets attacked..."
NGS2 Dev 2: "Uh huh."
NGS2 Dev 1: "... For a second time..."
NGS2 Dev 2: "Eeyup."
NGS2 Dev 1: "... In the same game..."
NGS2 Dev 2: "Yessir."
NGS2 Dev 1: "... By a Tengu Warrior..."
NGS2 Dev 2: "Yes."
NGS2 Dev 1: "..."
NGS2 Dev 2: "..."
NGS2 Dev 1: "Fine, just make sure her new outfit still makes sense like it was in Ninja Gaiden Dragon Sword."
NGS2 Dev 2: "Exposed side-boobs it is."
NGS2 Dev 1: "Wait, what?"

And I guess that's kinda the cons to the story in my opinion, it has characters but it doesn't really like to explore them much. I love what they do with the Ninja Clans, and I especially love to read the Black Spider Ninja Diaries as they add some depth into some of the enemies you face all the time. Heck, there are also the little things like in the diary of the monk who keeps getting flabbergasted any time he finds out someone (Ryu) steals from his safe.
My point is, I like the little details of the world, but the games don't like to explore them further, they just want to focus on newer stuff.
Every now and then there is the occasional Continuity Nod, like a diary in Ninja Gaiden 2 where a Black Spider Ninja actually mentions Gen and Dai, two Black Spider Ninjas found in Ninja Gaiden 1, but it's obvious they want to focus on the whole Archfiend and the Greater Fiends plot over it.

Which is fine, if they actually did more than
"Hi, I'm the Greater Fiend of Lightning. Oh no, you killed me!"
"Hi, I'm the Greater Fiend of Wind. Oh no, you killed me!"
"Hi, I'm the Greater Fiend of Fi-... oh no, you killed me! AND NOW I'M ON FIRE!!!! HOW DID THAT EVEN HAPPE-..."
"Hi, I'm the Greater Fiend of Blo-... WHY AM I BEING FLUSHED THROUGH A TOILET?!"

If they want to focus on the Archfiend plot over world building, fine, then SHOW us how Elizebét summoned the Greater Fiends back to life with the Demon Statue, rather than just starting up a Chapter with them with no explanation besides the Chapter Screen. But if they want to make the world feel big with it's diaries, making it so that Ryu's story is just a part of it, SHOW us how Genshin is conflicted. SHOW us how Genshin did "All to forge a future for the Black Spider Clan" besides just having it say it as he dies. Give us some cutscenes of the Black Spider Ninjas to relate to that. Show us how there are a portion of them who don't want to use guns while there are others who embrace it, like one of the diaries stated.

I really think the lacking of showing is what hurts the story and mythos' representation to the people who play the game, as the only way you can see any depth of the characters is to read stuff, which, let's be honest here, not many people are willing to do.

But yeah, that's just me going a bit on a tangent here, it's just my opinion. What are your opinions on Ninja Gaiden's story?
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Re: All things considered, what do you think about NG's stor

Post by reim0027 » Wed Sep 21, 2016 4:11 am

I think they tried too hard, and the story got worse every game.
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Re: All things considered, what do you think about NG's stor

Post by Shigurui » Wed Sep 21, 2016 4:37 am

NG has story? ... Heh, I like the way it was mainly lore based via reading in NG/B/2, if you wanted it you could read the books and scrolls for a bit more depth but it was summarised in load screens if you didn't much care for it, I'm in the latter camp. I have a basic grasp of it but really couldn't care less for any in depth story, just give me shit to kill and I'm happy.

As for NG3/RE I have zero clue what they were trying to do there. Slavic curses, the return of Obaba, Ryu the step parent, sibling necromancy, what the actual fuck Team Ninja?
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Re: All things considered, what do you think about NG's stor

Post by XNinjaRed » Wed Sep 21, 2016 11:03 am

Shigurui wrote:As for NG3/RE I have zero clue what they were trying to do there. Slavic curses, the return of Obaba, Ryu the step parent, sibling necromancy, what the actual fuck Team Ninja?
Yeah, I know the story of Ninja Gaiden 3 is pretty unpopular, as well as the whole game, really (and for good reason).
But I'll have to admit that I strangely enjoyed it.

Unpopular opinion, I know, but the story they TRIED to tell was actually kinda fun to me, in a Sho Kosugi movie kinda way.
If there ever WAS a personality to Ryu, it would be how highly he values his promises, as shown in Dead Or Alive where he protects Kasumi from Hayate, the one he personally promised to to protect her. And I like that the designers tried to explore that.

They didn't do it WELL, mind you, it's melodramatic as hell, I can see that, but I've always been kind of an idea guy who looks at what they were TRYING to do after looking through the execution.

Yeah, I know it's easy to be cynical towards Ninja Gaiden's story and say "I don't care about plot, just give me stuff to kill", but games like Devil May Cry and Bayonetta have been able to have a decent plot that adds to the action. Why can't Ninja Gaiden?
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Re: All things considered, what do you think about NG's stor

Post by Dark Hazuki » Wed Sep 21, 2016 12:20 pm

It's not something that I think TN do very well. NGB's story wasn't bad, but the rest sucked. It's like the more they try, the worse the story seems to be.

For these types of games, I prefer the Dark Souls approach of a vague story that plays out in the background; minimal cut scenes; and lore to hunt down if you want to find out more. A bit like Nioh. :D
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Re: All things considered, what do you think about NG's stor

Post by Shigurui » Thu Sep 22, 2016 2:54 am

XNinjaRed wrote:Yeah, I know it's easy to be cynical towards Ninja Gaiden's story and say "I don't care about plot, just give me stuff to kill", but games like Devil May Cry and Bayonetta have been able to have a decent plot that adds to the action. Why can't Ninja Gaiden?
Thing is I'm not being cynical, that's how I genuinely feel about games like NG, DMC, Bayonetta etc (all of which I think have terrible stories). The stories in these games mean absolutely nothing to me, I play them purely for the gameplay mechanics and to kill stuff. When I want to play a game with story I'll take something like Ethan Carter, Last of Us or even something like Spec Ops The Line over any NG game. It's just how I am. :shrug:
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Re: All things considered, what do you think about NG's stor

Post by XNinjaRed » Thu Sep 22, 2016 7:57 am

Shigurui wrote:Thing is I'm not being cynical, that's how I genuinely feel about games like NG, DMC, Bayonetta etc (all of which I think have terrible stories). The stories in these games mean absolutely nothing to me, I play them purely for the gameplay mechanics and to kill stuff. When I want to play a game with story I'll take something like Ethan Carter, Last of Us or even something like Spec Ops The Line over any NG game. It's just how I am. :shrug:
Okay, cool, that's fair.
Personally I actually like Devil May Cry 3's story. I mean it got me emotionally invested and all that by giving each character in the game have a character arc they've gone through, and how it's focused on all of them exploring the Temen-ni-Gru in different ways and how they come into contact with each other.
But then again, I can see why you can still consider all stories terrible.
Just out of curiosity, what do you think is needed for an action game to have a good story?
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Post by Dark Hazuki » Thu Sep 22, 2016 8:50 am

For me, true emotion. Heavenly Sword and DMC are great examples.

Decent dialogue and voice acting are essential.
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Re: All things considered, what do you think about NG's stor

Post by Luckrequired » Sun Sep 25, 2016 11:02 am

S'aight.
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Re: All things considered, what do you think about NG's stor

Post by Fiend Busa » Sat Oct 15, 2016 10:57 pm

Large Breast
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Re: All things considered, what do you think about NG's stor

Post by Hicho9 » Fri Nov 18, 2016 4:10 pm

I very much agree!

I actually think Ninja Gaiden has an amazing mythology, world background and characters.....Team Ninja just has not done very well in capitalizing on these things to tell a compelling story. Although I criticize, I generally have liked the stories of all the NG games myself.

Seriously, the mythology is top-notch....I love it....the Dragon Lineage ancient continuing battle with the Archfiends/Jashin. The cast of characters is amazing starting of course with Ryu, arguably the most kick-ass character in all of gaming. Then you have Muramasa, Momiji, Jo Hayabusa, etc., etc.

NG3:RE's story is a perfect example. The overall theme and concept of the story was great! The idea of the Alchemists is a great addition to the NG world --- a far-reaching global cult that is essentially trying to re-create the Fiends and gain their power through warped means. But, they don't focus on this in the game story but instead spend way too much time on Ryu's relationship with Canna the little girl, etc.....

The potential is HUGE for an incredible story that highlights the characters (stop introducing random new characters!) and mythology, but still does not get in the way of the action....
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Re: All things considered, what do you think about NG's stor

Post by Royta » Mon Mar 27, 2017 2:41 pm

I really liked the simple approach in the original game from 2004. It didn't try too much but it was mostly show and not tell. The cutscenes didn't feature a lot of dialogue and some things are never explained, like did Ryu really just murder all Murai's students as 'training'? And how did Ryu survive Doku's blow? Why did he transform into an eagle?

Personally I've always considered that Ryu is dead by Doku's hands but he is reborn as a silver eagle spirit of vengeance, symbolized by the bird that observes him in his dying moments. And when he flies away he dies again. This of course doesn't work with the fact that there are sequels etc, but I've always thought of it that way.

Still the cutscene in which Ryu fights Doku is my favorite. The music, the camera, it all has great build up and you get so much story from subtle motions in the character it's amazing. Love it! I too found that later games had a worse story, trying to make it too complex or too deep. It's a game about a cool ninja doing cool things, the end. Granted I rarely really enjoy the stories in these types of games. The only one that really hit me was Devil May Cry 3 which, in my opinion, had a great story with some great character development.
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Re: All things considered, what do you think about NG's story?

Post by ThaBlackFalcon » Thu Oct 04, 2018 3:13 pm

I could be wrong about this, but I believe Ryu survived Doku's blow because he was revived by his clan's guardian spirit that came in the form of the falcon (hayabusa). As it relates to the ending, my hypothesis is that the guardian spirit fused its life energy with Ryu's, essentially making him both human and guardian spirit of his clan, hence why he was able to transform into a celestial falcon form at the end.

I agree that the simple approach of the storyline was great because the way the maps were set up allowed for more exploration and if you wanted to read through the various lore in the game (which there's a pretty solid amount of in my opinion) then there's a lot to learn about the backstory of the game's world.

Not the most sophisticated story, but it had enough depth to make certain boss fights memorable and it made beating the game pretty satisfying as well.
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