Guard Break Reset Trick

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Ninja Noob
Vigoorian Berserker
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Re: Guard Break Reset Trick

Post by Ninja Noob » Mon Mar 16, 2015 12:20 am

Well, even if you want to record while you are practicing, and upload one of these test runs it woul'd be very much appreciated! :-)
It woul'd be awesome, actually!
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magx
Shadow Imp Fiend
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Re: Guard Break Reset Trick

Post by magx » Mon Mar 16, 2015 11:33 am

It's crazy that something this major is being discovered this many years into the modern series.
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Kazama Jin
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Re: Guard Break Reset Trick

Post by Kazama Jin » Mon Mar 16, 2015 5:43 pm

It seems I cannot recreate a huge advantage I had earlier with normal enemies using this 'reguard' technique.

The nature of this thing, as far as I can tell from playing so far is, certain enemies in the game have special hitboxes that immediately will hit you after you are guard broken, like fiend genshin will break your guard and continuously hit you, so will probably all of the bosses.

Guard breaks from normal enemies, if the original way they work is that they are just 'clean' guard breaks without an intended and implemented follow up from the developers (I guess?), function a bit differently. These normal guard breaks give you a certain amount of I-frames anyways regardless of reguarding, though after the I-frames end you will take damage unless you reguard. If you reguard, you'll just guard after the I-frames end.

^ The reason why it's important to distinguish both of these situations (It may not be due to different kinds of guard breaks as it is the bosses or certain moves are coded to just do damage during the guard broken state), is because once you are guard broken from a normal enemy(ninjas, at least) it seems like reguarding will not actually guard against anything they do until your post guard break I-frames are up.

Which means you can't immediately counter like I once thought you could.. I think I probably countered one of those rare implemented moves that melee ninjas have, that are indeed meant to hit you after a guard break, and will go through your post guard break I-frames. Reguarding against these moves will trigger ryu's guard, and therefore his counter, and etc.

But the most glaring example of what doesn't trigger reguard over your natural post guard break I-frames are IS ninja. So what happens looks like this:

IS stuck to ryu, guarding. ->explosion, Guard broken, hold down guard again immediately -> IS ninja attack ryu with combos and other IS explosions go off that would've hit ryu -> None of this hits Ryu due to post guard break I-frames -> Post guard break I-frames end, and another stuck IS goes off on ryu -> Guard broken(because of earlier reguard), etc. Like I said, if they attacked you with combos or IS or whatever after your post GB I-frames end, you would block it, counter it, etc.

So in short, it isn't possible to instantly guard and counter any incoming move off of a guard break like I thought.. It's only specifically coded stuff that is "Supposed" to hit ryu after his guard is broken, as far as I can melee ninjas have like 1 or 2 of these moves, but the most obvious function of those special post GB hits are from bosses, as seen in fiend busa's crazy reguarding vids in the original post. I haven't tried this a lot on fiends but I'm assuming it works since Gaja, Gelfs and Lycans all have stuff that does that.


Besides bosses, the most useful ways of applying reguard are Rasetsu wind blades can just straight all be blocked now (and actually push you out of trouble in the process), and if I remember correctly, ninja archers can be reguarded for multiple arrows if you time it right, you still take the block damage though.

And it's still useful from the standpoint of if you just feel like guarding through a lot of stuff, you can. I typically don't do this though since more IS will pile up on ryu the more stationary he is, and it's difficult to keep up with when it's ok for ryu to do moves the more IS are stuck to him.


I'll keep messing with it, see what I can come up with.
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Fiend Busa
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Re: Guard Break Reset Trick

Post by Fiend Busa » Tue Mar 17, 2015 12:36 am

Good stuff man!

Against normal enemies you really want to apply this tool into your defensive play. Always making a habit to guard reset whenever your guard is broken mid battle saves you a lot of unnecessary damage from incoming enemies from off-screen or ones that are hovering around you while you lay waste to your target. From experience I can say this has saved me from many many deaths. And after a while you don't even have to make a conscious effort to remember to guard reset because after a while it becomes second nature in your play style and you start doing it without event thinking about it.

Example: (NGRE)

Your fighting a bunch of brutes alongside some black spider ninjas and snakes.

Brute decides to guard break you and now the snake and that black spider ninja that has been hovering near you decide its a good time to attack. Snake throws acid off screen and the ninja comes in for an attack. Though you guard reset and block both the cheap off screen acid and also block the spider ninjas damage. You could say, "but why not dash", you could, but then you risk getting attacked during your recovery and now the Brute is off you since you dashed away and other enemies lock onto you and the almost dead brute is chilling off screen somewhere. A wasted opportunity to finish off an enemy as quick as possible!!

Regarding FG I am positive he has no special hitboxes that will hit you after his guard break. All his guard break moves can be safely be reset without taking damage. The only exception being in NG2 where his stunlock move hits you regardless if you blocked it or not but that only applies to NG2 vanilla as it has been removed in all other versions. All other greater fiends can be safely guard reset but you have to know which moves chip damage on block. This technique is most useful on Liz since it allows you to get her stuck in loop on a certain move.

Can't wait to see what else you find! :thumb:
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Fiend Busa
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Re: Guard Break Reset Trick

Post by Fiend Busa » Sun May 31, 2015 4:23 am

Edit:

Cleaned up the thread a little bit.
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