What does Razor's Edge do right that NG3 didn't?

PLATFORM: PS3, Xbox 360; RELEASE: November 18th 2012
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What does Razor's Edge do right that NG3 didn't?

Post by Dark Hazuki » Thu Mar 14, 2013 4:56 pm

I know the demo's only been available for 5 minutes, but so far the overall reception for this game seems pretty positive; which wasn't really the case for the original NG3. So, I'm just curious as to why you guys (if you do) think this game succeeds where the original failed.

For me, the return of upgrades was definitely a good move. I like having a purpose to the karma, other than just for points and this has definitely added an extra dimension to the gameplay. I also think the skill tree is neatly designed as well. I really hope that you need to make strategic choices as to what and when you're going to upgrade or unlock moves. :silly2:

Another positive for me is the return of other Ninpo spells. The single Ninpo choice in NG3 did get old really quick. But I couldn't help raise a smile when I unleashed a wind Ninpo earlier on. It's starting to feel like the NG of old. :D
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Re: What does Razor's Edge do right that NG3 didn't?

Post by Murphy's Ghost » Thu Mar 14, 2013 5:06 pm

What did it fix?


More content (upgrades weapons ninpo scarabs etc.)

Better enemy design on the regular mooks. NG3 vanilla there would be crowds of guys standing still shooting Uzis at noone in particular ... that is not the case anymore.

Rebalance of SoB mechanic, replacing old SoB with NG2-ish delimb -> OT system and now using SoB as grab counter.

UTs not auto-teleporting, you have to be in range.

From what I hear they took out the stumble-around-in-pain sequences and replaced them with fights. Good call.
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Re: What does Razor's Edge do right that NG3 didn't?

Post by RebornLS » Thu Mar 14, 2013 5:32 pm

I can't remeber them all off the top of my head. I have them posted on GFaqs some where. If you search RebornLS there is a discussion on it with an obvious thread title.(I can't access it from work, so when I get home i'll post the link)

Basically the A.I. does things like human shield more threating enemies from attacks, tries to evade ninpo or runs around a corner (van gelfves will 'huddle up' around corners until you ninpo finishes) but lower tier enemies will just stand there though.

On higher difficulties the boss A.I, would act like they are recieving damage when there are obvious signs they aren't. Try to trick you into doing loops and things like that. Genshin didn't stick to a dodge pattern, ROTM lost alot of i-frames, Alexei would react to the damage he was recieving...things like that.

My favorite example: Is of one of my least favorite fights in NG3, the Boss Jet Fight; it was just patterns. In NG3:RE the A.I. reacted to what you were doing. On Hard and MN it would buffer some attacks.
Vitality changes: Helicopters go down in 3-5 arrows (on MN) T-Rex has 50-75% less life.

I think Ver 2.1 is when the game became amazing, correcting a-l-o-t of slowdown and A.I.

Clan Battles has 3 perks per weapon, 2 weapons allowed per battle (including seeing people in ghost mode)

Ayanes Day 2 is one of the best levels ever made in an NG game.
Lunar is reason enough for me. It doesn't have insta-kill, but it can delimb swarms of enemies at a time.
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Re: What does Razor's Edge do right that NG3 didn't?

Post by bodaaf » Thu Mar 14, 2013 5:58 pm

Better control, more of everything decent, less of the rest... I also enjoy the fact that every encounter is dangerous again (less rinse & repeat).

It's never a good idea to remove content for a sequel, especially one with such rabid fan base as ninja gaiden, so seriously, WHAT THE HELL where they thinking when developing NG3? And even for the design choices I did like, TN failed to deliver the high quality that we had come to expect. Basically, they should have called it a Hayate spinoff, an appetizer to a full-fledged NG sequel, and most of us would have complained less...

There was a very negative buzz around the original release, nevertheless, it seems TN fixed a lot of the issues fans were complaining about. I'd almost call it fan service, so I hope the game sells good enough for them to take the franchise into the next console generation. I really want my next gen Tairon :D
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Re: What does Razor's Edge do right that NG3 didn't?

Post by stqueirolo » Thu Mar 14, 2013 6:49 pm

i like the new things on it like the shoot ninpo when you want to catch enemys of guard .
ayanes ut having a izuna like drop if you press y in the air like the lunar on ng 2
sob get you some energy , litle things that make it more tactic
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Re: What does Razor's Edge do right that NG3 didn't?

Post by Dark Hazuki » Thu Mar 14, 2013 10:23 pm

One thing I'm really liking now is the new SoB. Making it a counter is a great idea. :cool2:
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Re: What does Razor's Edge do right that NG3 didn't?

Post by Fejer » Thu Mar 14, 2013 10:39 pm

Am I the only one who thinks that projectile attacks (especially off screen) are exaggerated in the demo?
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Re: What does Razor's Edge do right that NG3 didn't?

Post by Puregrunt » Fri Mar 15, 2013 12:05 am

It does feel like a different game this time. It feels more fluid and fast. The ramp up in gore is probably one of the best additions, and the combat mechanics have changed. The first one i felt like I was seeing X and Y non stop, QTE madness. I dont see them here and thats what makes all the difference imo.

Decapitations, Obliterations, enemy aggression and intelligence have changed for the better. Maybe they had to ring Itagaki to get advice LOL.

I personally dont care if im forced to mash X in a QTE if its just for a boss finisher for say, but not being prompted non stop during battle. The Steel on Bone has changed as well and makes encounters so much better.

You cant just spam 360 into Izunas anymore with non stop SoB. Great! Most of that was forced apon you because of the mindless grab spamming AI. It appears in this game, provided you are intimate with the weapons enough, you might even be able to free form?
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Re: What does Razor's Edge do right that NG3 didn't?

Post by kosmos » Fri Mar 15, 2013 2:18 am

Dark Hazuki wrote:One thing I'm really liking now is the new SoB. Making it a counter is a great idea. :cool2:

But don't you think it's too easy to ejecute?, why not using some ki everytime you use SoB to prevent spamming, like the air shoot with the bow.
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Re: What does Razor's Edge do right that NG3 didn't?

Post by reim0027 » Fri Mar 15, 2013 5:19 am

You guys are almost making me want to get this game and get back into the NG fray.
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Re: What does Razor's Edge do right that NG3 didn't?

Post by protekwow » Fri Mar 15, 2013 7:01 am

+more weapons, more ninpo, abit more freedom in combat (you are not forced to do 10000x izuna drops like vanilla)
+enemies act better, still not perfect. Sometimes they grab into the wrong direction -_-
+so much more content, girls are not "perfect" but are so much fun to play and a good addition if polished even better for future titles
+being able to charge UTs as you want is alot more fun to play!!
+gore!
+the slowdown is still there, but not as hard as i remember it from vanilla (need PC version! :( )
+i enjoyed the old SoB system but this one is better, it realy is a good addition to the gameplay now
+game is abit too hard on normal for beginners (alchemist battle), for me it was awesome to start playing properly even on normal.
+game is not AS cheap anymore as vanilla, still some enemies are not realy affected by the camera and they still shoot stupid offscreen projectiles (vangelfs are still the same they can be properly controlled with the camera)
+feels so good to see old enemies and new ones in the game, always a nice change to see so many different encounters not just soldiers soldiers and apes -_-
+lvlup system is great, i love RPGs and absolutly vote for something like this in an action title like ninja gaiden. So nice to realy feel the impact of an upgrade.
+whats not in the demo but we alrdy now from the wiiu, the damn slowmo scenes and some RP stuff got removed / replaced by more action
+chapter challange is great!
+more trials!
+not having to release block to properly OT enemies

-i dislike the way they changed elizabeth
-alexei not fixed, same gltiches as always
-marbus is worse than in vanilla, he glitches ALOT more even when playing Solo now
-i still lost enemies in some midair combos or ryu changing targets midair?!?! and then getting pounded on the ground
-you can still get juggled into death
-you should be able to interrupt enemies better on certain moves (they improved on this on the stealth/armored guys but its still unbalanced)
-you shouldnt be able to onehit kill the big spiders
-some damage multipliers are too low. Damage of the dual swords is just non existant (their UT is great tho!)
-not much Control on UTs, sometimes the character just kills one guy and even with others close to him he just strikes into thin air
-some trials got changed into an even worse state than before, making them too cheap and not fun to play (UN5.....)
-maps didnt get properly reworked, you still get stuck in the environment
-unresponsive controls appear more often than in vanilla
-some enemies shouldnt dodge normal combos as crazy as they do right now (alchemists)
-OT sometimes misses
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Re: What does Razor's Edge do right that NG3 didn't?

Post by mickstupp » Fri Mar 15, 2013 7:32 am

reim0027 wrote:You guys are almost making me want to get this game and get back into the NG fray.
Me three :deepthought:
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Re: What does Razor's Edge do right that NG3 didn't?

Post by Dark Hazuki » Fri Mar 15, 2013 8:45 am

kosmos wrote:
Dark Hazuki wrote:One thing I'm really liking now is the new SoB. Making it a counter is a great idea. :cool2:

But don't you think it's too easy to ejecute?, why not using some ki everytime you use SoB to prevent spamming, like the air shoot with the bow.
I know what you mean. It's now very easy to manipulate SoB setups; just chop a limb off and wait for the red glow. I'm pretty sure it was never this straight forward or reliable in the original. But, at least in the demo, the SoB chain seems capped to only 2 kills.

Edit: I just upgraded Ryu's weapon for the first time and noticed that the Sob chain isn't capped at 2 kills. My mistake. :D
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Re: What does Razor's Edge do right that NG3 didn't?

Post by Murphy's Ghost » Fri Mar 15, 2013 5:10 pm

Dark Hazuki wrote: It's now very easy to manipulate SoB setups; just chop a limb off and wait for the red glow. I'm pretty sure it was never this straight forward or reliable in the original.
Nah, SoB was entirely predictable once you got the hang of it. It was only tricky for people to learn because the game never bothered to explain the mechanic in the slightest.

That's part of the general frustration with NG3 vanilla funneling you down specific paths- if you play the game just how it wants you to, you SoB chain a dozen guys at a time and laugh at how easy it is. Want to do your own thing, or not use the specific 1 or 2 combos that are really effectively on the enemy you're fighting? Good luck on MN. You basically can't, the way that game is designed.


This version is significantly improved in that area- you've got more options. Though on MN spamming SoB counters is gonna be highly encouraged, at least that takes some awareness to accomplish.
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Re: What does Razor's Edge do right that NG3 didn't?

Post by RebornLS » Sat Mar 16, 2013 6:17 pm

here is a small list that was implemented in a patch not to long ago.
http://www.gamefaqs.com/boards/632947-n ... e/65355626

i assume these things will be in 360/PS3 version
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Re: What does Razor's Edge do right that NG3 didn't?

Post by sanman » Mon Mar 18, 2013 12:53 pm

Are they going to port Razor's Edge to PC? Is there any info on this? I haven't played my my Xbox in years and don't like having to pay for gold just to do basic online stuff. I've been playing Dota2/Darksouls on my PC for over a year now and also picked up demons's souls for my brother's PS3 and loved that, but beyond it...no console love for me in the last few years.

I'd love to buy this on Steam though... :ninjawink:
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Re: What does Razor's Edge do right that NG3 didn't?

Post by Dark Hazuki » Mon Mar 18, 2013 12:59 pm

Sorry, it's console only. But I wouldn't worry too much about the online side of this game. It's a bit of fun, but nothing special. I certainly wouldn't overlook this game because of that. :thumb:
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Re: What does Razor's Edge do right that NG3 didn't?

Post by protekwow » Mon Mar 18, 2013 1:23 pm

Dark Hazuki wrote:Sorry, it's console only. But I wouldn't worry too much about the online side of this game. It's a bit of fun, but nothing special. I certainly wouldn't overlook this game because of that. :thumb:
I beg to differ!!! the online play is what keeps me playing vanilla even now every weekend. Its amazingto play coop and struggle your way through the challenges of the trials. You can do so much more fun stuff with a partner its amazing and also allows for more crazy battles.

Since ng3 the ng series is only about the online. I just cant find fun anymore in playing alone when i have played for several months with other ninjas around the world who also share the same passion for this game.
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Re: What does Razor's Edge do right that NG3 didn't?

Post by Dark Hazuki » Mon Mar 18, 2013 1:50 pm

I do agree that the online is fun. I certainly got my fair share out of NG3's clan battles. :kungfu:

But I guess my point was really to stress that Razor's Edge will still be worth a look, even without online. Or at least I think so anyway. :D
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Re: What does Razor's Edge do right that NG3 didn't?

Post by sanman » Mon Mar 18, 2013 3:04 pm

Dark Hazuki wrote:I do agree that the online is fun. I certainly got my fair share out of NG3's clan battles. :kungfu:

But I guess my point was really to stress that Razor's Edge will still be worth a look, even without online. Or at least I think so anyway. :D
Ah, okay, I haven't played anything NG related since vaniala NG2. So they are going to be porting NG3 Razor's Edge to PS3 soon? I'd probably buy it for the PS then if that is the case...and find one of those 360 pads that works with the ps3 or a converter or something.

It does look fun...all those old enemies....I read something about Marbus? I thought he was from NGB...and what is SoB? >_>
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Re: What does Razor's Edge do right that NG3 didn't?

Post by Murphy's Ghost » Mon Mar 18, 2013 4:42 pm

protekwow wrote: I beg to differ!!! the online play is what keeps me playing vanilla even now every weekend. Its amazingto play coop and struggle your way through the challenges of the trials. You can do so much more fun stuff with a partner its amazing and also allows for more crazy battles.

Heh, I'm the exact opposite. The fact that they design the mission mode for co-op made me lose interest in Trials almost immediately. Having to depend on someone else for success/failure in an NG game doesn't appeal to me at all. To me the whole point of the series is Ryu being a singular badass...


sanman wrote: It does look fun...all those old enemies....I read something about Marbus? I thought he was from NGB...and what is SoB? >_>
Comes out for 360 and ps3 in a couple weeks. Some enemies from past NG games get recycled in story mode and a LOT of old enemies and bosses get recycled in mission mode.

SoB = Steel on Bone. In vanilla NG3 it's a combo chain mechanic that lets you instant kill a bunch of enemies at once. In Razor's Edge it's been changed to a grab counter that lets you instant kill a few enemies if you're successful.
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Re: What does Razor's Edge do right that NG3 didn't?

Post by sanman » Mon Mar 18, 2013 5:37 pm

Murphy's Ghost wrote:
sanman wrote: It does look fun...all those old enemies....I read something about Marbus? I thought he was from NGB...and what is SoB? >_>
Comes out for 360 and ps3 in a couple weeks. Some enemies from past NG games get recycled in story mode and a LOT of old enemies and bosses get recycled in mission mode.

SoB = Steel on Bone. In vanilla NG3 it's a combo chain mechanic that lets you instant kill a bunch of enemies at once. In Razor's Edge it's been changed to a grab counter that lets you instant kill a few enemies if you're successful.
A couple weeks?! A counter specifically for grab moves?

Well that sounds fun as all get out....

I need a new job quick so I can afford it. Any idea which platform it will be better for at this point? Thanks btw
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Re: What does Razor's Edge do right that NG3 didn't?

Post by Murphy's Ghost » Mon Mar 18, 2013 5:41 pm

I haven't checked the 360 version demo yet but people that played both seem to think the 360 might be slightly more responsive (or maybe it's just the controller, some players seem more comfortable with the 360 pad for NG games- myself included). And if you're gonna play online, XBL tends to perform better than PSN.

But for the most part it sounds like the two versions are pretty damn comparable, splitting hairs either way. If I get it I'll probably go with the 360 version for the controller.
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Re: What does Razor's Edge do right that NG3 didn't?

Post by stqueirolo » Mon Mar 18, 2013 7:46 pm

Heh, I'm the exact opposite. The fact that they design the mission mode for co-op made me lose interest in Trials almost immediately. Having to depend on someone else for success/failure in an NG game doesn't appeal to me at all. To me the whole point of the series is Ryu being a singular badass...




you see maybe your focus was wrong , one its not ryu the one in the trials . so that ninja needs help jajajajaja.

and the other misconception is tht you need someone else from 75 trials you only really need help from other ninja in 10 so theres 65 solo trials if your up to the challenge :kungfu: jejejeje
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Re: What does Razor's Edge do right that NG3 didn't?

Post by Murphy's Ghost » Mon Mar 18, 2013 10:05 pm

@ST- The point is that the mode is designed and balanced for two players, and the higher missions make that obvious.

At least NG3 doesn't stick you with the forced AI companion like Sigma 2, but the same issue is present- sure, I could play most of the missions solo, but is UN1 or 2 in Sigma 2 possible without a second player? Nope. And the NG3 boss-spam missions are kinda similar- at the end of the day the mode is designed with 2 players in mind.

For an NG game, I dislike that concept. I'd prefer if the mission mode was designed around a 1 player mindset. Anyway, that's just my view, I wouldn't get too riled up about it. I know a lot of people like the co-op, and that's cool. :wink:
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