Got past Liz in Master Ninja mode

PLATFORM: PS3, Xbox 360; RELEASE: November 18th 2012
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Got past Liz in Master Ninja mode

Post by Ninja Noob » Wed Jan 21, 2015 4:11 am

I had been stuck on Master Ninja day 6 ToV because of Liz for days. Then, I killed her by using all my health upgrades. I did Ayane ToV without much trouble, and now I'm in day 7 ToV. Yesterday I had a nine hours session like during NG2 times :)
Alexey is tough but it's an absolutely fair boss. There is nothing that you can't see and dodge, and there are some instances in which you can land pretty much guaranteed damage against him. So I think that Liz shoul'd be day 7 ToV and Alexey day 6, after all even in NG2 you fougth Alexey before Liz...
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Re: Got past Liz in Master Ninja mode

Post by Murphy's Ghost » Wed Jan 21, 2015 4:55 am

Congrats on the win! :smile:
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Re: Got past Liz in Master Ninja mode

Post by Ninja Noob » Wed Jan 21, 2015 5:55 am

Are you kidding, try to wonder how much health I healed :smile:
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Re: Got past Liz in Master Ninja mode

Post by Fiend Busa » Wed Jan 21, 2015 1:53 pm

Congrats :cheer:
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Re: Got past Liz in Master Ninja mode

Post by reim0027 » Wed Jan 21, 2015 2:11 pm

Nice job man. I really didn't do much of the ToVs on this game, so good for you for doing them.
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Re: Got past Liz in Master Ninja mode

Post by Ninja Noob » Wed Jan 21, 2015 5:21 pm

LOL thanks guys, but as you can read I had to use all my "items". I actually learned a lot of her patterns but the unpredictable throw made me resign after a lot of tries. I tried to use also S,T,OL T loop but it's harder than it looks, or maybe I didn't understood how to enter it. Same about S,S,shuriken,T loop. Coul'd you explain how her loops actually work? Can you suggest a trial for practicing her a bit? I know about last Mentor trial but I guess she's much easier than Master Ninja.

I think I coul'd also cheese her playing at mid distance, waiting for her charging attacks and punishing with FS, maybe my next run through.

I'll also try basic Volf loop, looks easy and reliable. Edit: it's not actually loop, it's the trick involving Square,Triangle(hold)Triangle move.
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Re: Got past Liz in Master Ninja mode

Post by Kagerasimaru » Thu Jan 22, 2015 1:26 am

Its nice you beat liz but you might have a hard time later when fighting caana bc of her bs spam of projectiles. Liz sorry i dont have tips for the loop cuz idk how to do myself. No one really explains it well so i didnt bother. I should get to finishing my day 6 and 6A tov with ryu using only the DS so then i can follow up with the day 7 and 8 upload since those are completed.
Fighting volf with S[T], T is safe but takes forever. Volf is literally comping down to paying attention to his AI. Once you see the beginning of his animation then u can see what to do from there. It takes time, but i practiced him on mentor until i understood his AI then followed it up on trials etc. I can basically fighting him with any weapon once i get a combo going. So far scythe, DS, BotA, & claws.
I need work on the rest of them, but i dont think ill have much problem.
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Re: Got past Liz in Master Ninja mode

Post by Fiend Busa » Thu Jan 22, 2015 2:01 am

Ill go to liz right now and upload a guide in 5min, it will be a shitty guide tho but I will try to explain my best lol
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Re: Got past Liz in Master Ninja mode

Post by reim0027 » Thu Jan 22, 2015 2:30 am

I agree with Kage. She is a cheap bitch who is very difficult to read. Nobody has given me reliable hints about her AI and how to manipulate it. :sob:
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Re: Got past Liz in Master Ninja mode

Post by Fiend Busa » Thu Jan 22, 2015 2:37 am

Loop Guide:
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EKYfTw7t_v8[/youtube]
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Re: Got past Liz in Master Ninja mode

Post by Ninja Noob » Thu Jan 22, 2015 3:59 am

Ok so, first of all, thanks everyone for joining discussion and helping.

@Kagerasimaru: I noticed that you had that incomplete playlist up for a while, it woul'd be cool if you upped the other videos you have ready. Will it screw the order of the playlist?

Thanks for the tips about Volf. I'll try different approaches. From what I see, I shoul'd set up the fight with X,shuriken,X,X then I shoul'd continue accordingly to his attacks like you were saying.

@Reim: yes, Liz is practically unpredictable. If she hadn't the close grab, she woul'd have been a fair boss after all, but that move is so un fair that it screw pretty much all.

What I got, is that when you are close to her, she will have different "periods". You can get a period in which she do punches or claws, or a period in which she grab pretty much all time, and mix it up with claws, so when she is in grab period, is best to always dodge the attack instead of blocking. When she is under half of his health, or low on health, she'll become very grab happy so it's better to always dodge.

Everytime she does charges, you basically dodge the first charge, then, when you see she's moving to initiate the second charge, you do S+X,T (FS) and you damage her without taking damage. She can do many charges and you can punish all of them. If the charge attack ends in front of a wall and you are close, you can land a pretty much guaranteed combo on her, but it's hard to position yourself in order to make that happen on purpose. Let's say that if you find a way to make her doing charges all time, you can easily kill her. I learn this FS Liz punisher from cm devilzz (ModdedSkill) youtube channel, props to him!

There are also some special charge grabs and other attacks that she does which I still cant counter properly.

If she is floating above Ryu and does the two tail attack, I block the first, dodge the second, then do X,T,T Sword combo, and get her most of time (if I remember to do it :picard: )

@Fiend Busa: it's simply great you are doing a video for me asking help, you are awesome! So, what is still unclear to me, is actually how you enter the loop. I think that it is about hitting her in the precise moment she does the punches, so you can get the timing using other patterns she doeas as a point of reference. So, you hit her during first punch, block, repush, block, dodge the tail, punish with XX (because you can land only two guaranteed hits, otherwise there is a chence she enter i-frame mode). Then (in RE) you have to hit her again during the first punch, so this is when it comes the trouble. There is a variation of this loop, in which you punish with ST instead of SS and do OL brief charge, release, but it triggers the claws if I'm correct. Did I understood? Does it follow the same mechanic on Mentor Trials?

In the end, I want to sincerily thank every guy that make videos and/or give tips about these though games. If it weren't for you, I think my copies of NGB, NG2, NG3RE were just collecting dust.
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Re: Got past Liz in Master Ninja mode

Post by Fiend Busa » Thu Jan 22, 2015 4:10 am

Ninja Noob wrote:Ok so, first of all, thanks everyone for joining discussion and helping.

@Kagerasimaru: I noticed that you had that incomplete playlist up for a while, it woul'd be cool if you upped the other videos you have ready. Will it screw the order of the playlist?

Thanks for the tips about Volf. I'll try different approaches. From what I see, I shoul'd set up the fight with X,shuriken,X,X then I shoul'd continue accordingly to his attacks like you were saying.

@Reim: yes, Liz is practically unpredictable. If she hadn't the close grab, she woul'd have been a fair boss after all, but that move is so un fair that it screw pretty much all.

What I got, is that when you are close to her, she will have different "periods". You can get a period in which she do punches or claws, or a period in which she grab pretty much all time, and mix it up with claws, so when she is in grab period, is best to always dodge the attack instead of blocking. When she is under half of his health, or low on health, she'll become very grab happy so it's better to always dodge.

Everytime she does charges, you basically dodge the first charge, then, when you see she's moving to initiate the second charge, you do S+X,T (FS) and you damage her without taking damage. She can do many charges and you can punish all of them. If the charge attack ends in front of a wall and you are close, you can land a pretty much guaranteed combo on her, but it's hard to position yourself in order to make that happen on purpose. Let's say that if you find a way to make her doing charges all time, you can easily kill her. I learn this FS Liz punisher from cm devilzz (ModdedSkill) youtube channel, props to him!

There are also some special charge grabs and other attacks that she does which I still cant counter properly.

If she is floating above Ryu and does the two tail attack, I block the first, dodge the second, then do X,T,T Sword combo, and get her most of time (if I remember to do it :picard: )

@Fiend Busa: it's simply great you are doing a video for me asking help, you are awesome! So, what is still unclear to me, is actually how you enter the loop. I think that it is about hitting her in the precise moment she does the punches, so you can get the timing using other patterns she doeas as a point of reference. So, you hit her during first punch, block, repush, block, dodge the tail, punish with XX (because you can land only two guaranteed hits, otherwise there is a chence she enter i-frame mode). Then (in RE) you have to hit her again during the first punch, so this is when it comes the trouble. There is a variation of this loop, in which you punish with ST instead of SS and do OL brief charge, release, but it triggers the claws if I'm correct. Did I understood? Does it follow the same mechanic on Mentor Trials?

In the end, I want to sincerily thank every guy that make videos and/or give tips about these though games. If it weren't for you, I think my copies of NGB, NG2, NG3RE were just collecting dust.
How do you enter the loop? There is no way to enter the loop, you just have to wait until she does the combo. Im just attacking at the same time as her only because it will cancel her grab if she decides to do that move and for extra damage.

I'll try to explain this as easy as possible. For the loop to work there is no magic/specific COMBO that you have to do to get her in a loop state. All those fancy combo variations you see are just simply to maximize damage. DURING THE LOOP COMBO, IF YOU REPUSH L1, thats it, the loop has started. Anything else you see is just fancy combo variations.

I'll try to explain Liz as she is actually really predictable and follows a pretty strict pattern.

1. Liz comes down from the air
She will either attack without dashing or she will dash and attack (This is why when she comes down from the air I will always run her and do an instant windpath to bow, to avoid getting attacked/grabbed)

2. Liz Dashes
She will either attack without dashing or she will dash and attack

3. Liz After A Combo
She will start new strings in the same position if you don't miss an attack (eg. you hit her and miss, she will dash attack but if you attack her at the same time as she attack she won't dash into a new attack string)
The tail smash is an exception (she will either do the 3 tail smash and have a long recovery or instantly dash into a new attack string)

4. Liz Dash Kick
She will follow up with an attack (he will start a new attack string faster than usual) unless again you attack her and she auto dodges.

ALL MOVES CANCEL HER GRAB IF THE STRING IF THE MOVE TRACKS WELL (Example: Claw T has shit tracking for her grab and she will almost always grab you through it lol)

Doesn't work in NG2 though
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Re: Got past Liz in Master Ninja mode

Post by Ninja Noob » Thu Jan 22, 2015 4:33 am

So all I have to do is getting the timing to shut her grab, waiting for the punches combo to enter the loop?
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Re: Got past Liz in Master Ninja mode

Post by Fiend Busa » Thu Jan 22, 2015 4:34 am

Ninja Noob wrote:So all I have to do is getting the timing to shut her grab, waiting for the punches combo to enter the loop?
Ye, you don't have to get the timing to shut her grab. That is optional lol.
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Re: Got past Liz in Master Ninja mode

Post by Kagerasimaru » Thu Jan 22, 2015 9:40 pm

@ Ninja Noob i kinda like uploading them in sequence so ill try my best today to record the rest.
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Re: Got past Liz in Master Ninja mode

Post by Kagerasimaru » Fri Jan 23, 2015 10:29 pm

I have them recorded and il have them uploaded soon.
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Re: Got past Liz in Master Ninja mode

Post by Ninja Noob » Thu Jan 29, 2015 2:43 am

I yet don't know how to avoid some of the F.Genshin tactics, but I coul'd still beat him and clear Day8 ToV!!!
I had to resort to True Inferno though, but it was cool to beat it without health ups. Now I'm going to finish RE on MN :)

When I finish this, I want to beat MN story again, doing all ToV's. My first playthrough was mainly the Sword, but actually I used the Scythe to milk Karma on the first chapters. Now this will be a full DS only no farming run. To be honest, i didn't think I coul'd enjoy this game to this point, I really like it and want to play it more and more.

When I started, I coul'd play it only for two or maybe three hours because it was so demanding, and I had to take long breaks, now I can do my straight six or even eight hours and I'm happy with it :)

Also, I'm aknowledging that I can use a trick against proto goddesses, but I actually didn't know it cause I didn't watched much Day7 vids, so I beat them with TTT combos. With Ayane, I think I used dash T hold release, so I coul'd i-frame through incoming charges of the other goddesses.
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