Noob Gaiden Sigma 2

PLATFORM: PS3; RELEASE: September 29th 2009
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Noob Gaiden Sigma 2

Post by Ninja Noob » Mon Dec 18, 2017 10:19 pm

As you might know, I played NGB, NG2 and NG3RE. A few days ago I bought Sigma 2. Since I have experience with the past games, I said that I wanted to play for real, so I started on Warrior no UT no Ninpo. But basically, I wasn't using any item, so I set no items rule too. I was still upgrading health and weapons, and using talismans of rebirth, but basically I finished Warrior on those restrictions.

Then I did it on Mentor: no UT, no Ninpo, no items, health and weapons upgrades allowed, talismans allowed, but basically I wasn't saving my talismans: if I lost them accidentally I was not resetting. So, a few minutes ago, I beat the Archfiend and unlocked Master Ninja.

Now, I remember I was trying to do a similar thing in NG2 vanilla and I had A LOT of trouble in come spots. Especially Rasetsu fight in chapter 2. This game seems to be considerably easyer, like... completely. Also, it seems that number and types of enemies don't change inbetween difficulty levels? Whatever.

So, I'm trying to do the same on Master Ninja. Still, health and weapons upgrades allowed, talismans allowed because I'm opening all chests and I don't want to reset or suicide any time I use one. I'll post highlights here, then I'll do a thread with my opinion on the game.

On a side note: after YEARS I think I'm starting to get the hang of Elizabeth, my archenemy. I wished this forum had a chamapagne emoticon...
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Royta
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Re: Noob Gaiden Sigma 2

Post by Royta » Tue Dec 19, 2017 8:13 am

Elizabeth is a bit different here, but doing her No Hurt with the Flails is still my pride and joy in this game.

But yeah the game is a lot easier, but also mostly because of it being well designed (most of the time). A lot of 'bullshit' was removed, ranged combat is pretty much gone and those RPG mooks are nowhere to be seen with a few exceptions. Enemy layouts are different per setting, Mentor is tactical ninja mode basically, while Master Ninja has the white-ninja. IS Ninja's are a LOT less present. Most dangerous foes on MNM are the mages though with their 1.frame startup instant kill grab and the dogs, for similar reasons.

Bosses also no longer have adds I believe.
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Re: Noob Gaiden Sigma 2

Post by H.Smoke » Tue Dec 19, 2017 8:49 am

I do believe NGS2 is objectively easier than NG2. The only thing that you have to keep an eye on MN are the grabs, which deal retarded damage and will kill you most of the time. That said, to balance that grabs are slower than on NG2 so if you are used to play vanilla you will have an edge. Also less enemies so you can control the situation without having to deal with an army of IS Ninjas pinning you down. Also yeah, most bosses don't have adds.

Aside from that, the non-Ryu chapters were a pain in the ass for me the 1st time I did MN, especially Momiji's fight against the Tengu bros, but everything elese was manageable.
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Re: Noob Gaiden Sigma 2

Post by Royta » Tue Dec 19, 2017 10:09 am

One of the reasons I never - ever - replay the game on Master Ninja outside of Chapter Challenge is that I can just skip those girlchapters. They are the worst. Marbus with Rachel makes me want to hit things in real life.
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Re: Noob Gaiden Sigma 2

Post by Ninja Noob » Tue Dec 19, 2017 11:48 pm

I played the first two chapters. At first I was in trouble in chapter one against IS ninjas, but basically I figured out that windpath, dash back, ->T is a guaranteed launcher into Izuna. Then, after Izuna, ->T into Izuna again and IS ninjas are dead. That way the game becomes extremely boring and repetitive though. So I decided to introduce a new rule: no izuna XD

I tried that for chapter 2 and it was viable, though, having no Izuna, I find myself doing the GT a lot. So I restarted from Chapter 1 and tried to play even without GT, but that's really really tough for me so I decided to just ban the Izuna. The game is a lot better with no Izuna Drop. The GT is still really useful in this game even with no guaranteed delimb, since it let you throw an enemy out of a crowd. I also love doing windpath, dash back, GT: this way the GT never misses the target and it's very reliable.

The dogs in Chapter 2 have not been a problem so I think I won't have significant troubles in Chapter 3. I think the real problem will be Zedonius, since he has Gajas helper and killing them without Izuna will be difficult.

I like playing Momiji and Rachel, but maybe they will be tough, Agreed. Though, the one I'm mostly concerned about is Ayane. I just don't really know if I'll stick to the "no air drop" rule, since she's already really though to play. Though, her drop is also really bad and slow LOL.

Btw, as you guys pointed out, the grabs are not a huge problem since they are really slow and you see them most of times.

Edit:
because of it being well designed
Yeah, though now the game feels less unique than the predecessor. I'd really want to see what Itagaki really wanted to make with vanilla, I don't think I wanted the game to be like that, but neither like Sigma 2.

Elizabeth with flails: I think I could probably loop her with ->T, but I guess you fought her legit? I still have to understand how to fight her normally. It seems the grab is unreactable, but she seems to only do her when she's doing the fast sidesteps, and also she seems to do all her attacks after the same amount of frames. So, probably, when you see shes sideasteppi or moving fast, you just wait a few frames than just dodge, so you should be able to dodge whatever she does. I personally found that you can also attack her befor she attacks, there is a moment in which you can hit her and she won't autododge, and doing that seems to make her doing her three punches combo more frequently. And from that combo you start the loop, which in this game seems easy to do.
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Re: Noob Gaiden Sigma 2

Post by H.Smoke » Wed Dec 20, 2017 6:44 am

To each his own but I believe Elizebeth is so badly designed that is the one boss I'd never shame someone over because he looped her/used Genshin's corpse, in fact, I'd encourage it. That said I have a really strong hate against her so I never felt like trying too much once I learned the loops, there may be better, non-exploitable, strategies nowadays.

I remember having some issues in Ayane's chapter with the gauntlet before the boss, but the boss itself is a joke. I say that because with Momiji and Rachel I cruised through the chapters but got stuck really bad with the Tengu bros and Marbus the 1st time I did MN.
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Re: Noob Gaiden Sigma 2

Post by Ninja Noob » Wed Dec 20, 2017 2:02 pm

I believe Elizebeth is so badly designed
Though, they completely redesigned the game, and it seems they didn't touch her at all... I don't know, maybe we are missing something? Even in Razor's Edge she seems to be the same or even worse...
I'd never shame someone over because he looped her/used Genshin's corpse
Oh I'd shame someone for using Genshin's corpse, gotta respect him, he's a cool character and a fun boss to fight :-)
Jokes aside, against Liz in NG2 there was also that infamous Falcon Talons FS loop, I wonder if they patched it in Sigma...
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Re: Noob Gaiden Sigma 2

Post by Royta » Wed Dec 20, 2017 9:20 pm

I never got this to be honest, the hate for her that is. She's pretty hard I'll give her that, but once you know her pattern and setups it isn't that insane. Despite not having played the game in a few years, I just beat her again with the flails no problem. Her grab is an issue but you basically got to stay at a certain range so she'll never do it, and once she does her dash attack you dash backwards so you land next to her. My sole punish is >T, if it connects I do it again, if she dodges or blocks I get the hell out of there.

This video is insanely old, one of my first even haha, but maybe it will help:


I try to explain the best I can how to do her. Mostly using the cheese-sticks.
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Re: Noob Gaiden Sigma 2

Post by Ninja Noob » Wed Dec 20, 2017 10:58 pm

@Royta: this way it takes forever to kill her though. It's a good strat but still makes hating her since it's kinda a grind. (Thanks for posting the video though!) :-)
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Re: Noob Gaiden Sigma 2

Post by Royta » Thu Dec 21, 2017 8:36 am

Yeah it's a very old but safe strat, which we built at the time to deal with the nightmare that was the Ultimate Ninja 01 mission. She reminds me a lot of Awakened Alma but less frustrating (mostly because she doesn't have adds). I can do a Flails showcase tonight if you want a visual aid? Let me know.
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Re: Noob Gaiden Sigma 2

Post by Ninja Noob » Thu Dec 21, 2017 9:16 pm

Yes, I want!

Right now I'm at Momiji section. No problem until the mages. Thre is just incredibly tough...
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Re: Noob Gaiden Sigma 2

Post by Royta » Fri Dec 22, 2017 7:57 am

Cool I'll record it tonight and post it here.
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Re: Noob Gaiden Sigma 2

Post by Royta » Fri Dec 22, 2017 4:57 pm



Around 14:50 starts the winning attempt...youtube apparently REMOVED its video-editor for whatever reason. Anyway, forgive the rusty performance. It has been 2 years and my controller is...faulty at best. I really should buy a new one. Excuses excuses I know, but a few times I did dodge only to have Ryu do weird things (pressing my analogue stick tends to prompt a Square input for some reason).

But enfin, you can see the setups and how to dodge her moves. If you can attack her from behind she'll tend not to dodge :)
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Re: Noob Gaiden Sigma 2

Post by Ninja Noob » Fri Dec 22, 2017 5:40 pm

Thanks! :-)

Though, youtube says: "this video is not available" :-(
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Re: Noob Gaiden Sigma 2

Post by Royta » Fri Dec 22, 2017 5:45 pm

Wh00ps! Should work now :)



(put it on private by accident, it is now on unlisted)
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Re: Noob Gaiden Sigma 2

Post by Ninja Noob » Fri Dec 22, 2017 6:30 pm

Thank you, watched almost all the Liz fight and a bit of Genshin. The Flails are not the best weapon for bosses imo. I also found that I still didn't subscribe to this channel, maybe it's new? Btw, I have a question to ask you about recording hardware, if you like, where can I message you?
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Re: Noob Gaiden Sigma 2

Post by Royta » Fri Dec 22, 2017 6:40 pm

You can ask it here, or in the comment section of the video. And yeah the weapon is pointless against bosses haha, especially compared to the others - I just really like it ^^
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Re: Noob Gaiden Sigma 2

Post by Ninja Noob » Fri Dec 22, 2017 10:27 pm

Yeah it's a cool weapon, and fun to use. Meanwhile I've done the first Momiji midboss, and I've got to the IS ninja section before the last save statue. I have no clue against IS ninjas... I'll go rewatching the old Iraqoz videos...

Edit: I wrote another comment in the video...
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Re: Noob Gaiden Sigma 2

Post by Ninja Noob » Fri Dec 22, 2017 11:07 pm

So, I beat the IS ninjas. Tactic: knock one of them down with the GT, then TTT over and over until he decided to lose a limb!
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Re: Noob Gaiden Sigma 2

Post by H.Smoke » Sat Dec 23, 2017 10:24 am

Curious how you will fare against the Tengu bros rematch. That fight was a legit roadblock for me.
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Re: Noob Gaiden Sigma 2

Post by Ninja Noob » Sat Dec 23, 2017 1:08 pm

@H.Smoke: I did it in two hours, I think. I have been killed many times by projectiles and off screen grabs, so I tried to pay attention to them while fighting one of the Tengu. THOUGH, it proved to be a bit stressful, and really slow, so I just adopted another mindset: just fight one tengu without caring about the other one, and go away only when the other one is close, if I die it's ok. Basically I did that two or three times and I got lucky and was able to kill the red one. Killing the blue when he was alone has been easy. Not a perfect strat, but I'm sure that learning the proper strat would have taken many hours, and it would have involved a lot of jumping away, which wasn't fun, so I resigned and just tried to put an end to the fight asap.

The strat I use for killing one tengu on MN, which probably is the same strat everyone uses, is the following:

- he does his combo, I block the first two attacks, letting him breaking my guard, then I dodge slightly early, then check what he does as third attack:

1) if he attacks with the club, I just punish with a single T
2) if he does a kick it means he's goig to do another kick, so I dodge again and then I punish with a single T

- he jumps in the air, I dodge slightly early and punish with a single T

Then reason why I punish with a single attack is that many times he has blocked the first T and then hyper armored a throw during my second T attack. Theoretically you can do SS (check if he's stunned) T, but again he can block the first attack and hyper armor through the second -> GG

- he tries to throw: I just dodge and punish with TT, in this case he should always get stunned.

This is the strat but I'm sure it's nothing new. As most NG bosses, you can also try to hit tengu in many ways, especially while he's attacking you, and you still can block and be safe. Though I don't do it because I'm still not familiar with this boss. Oh, well... still not familiar with the others too :biggrin:
So I play safe against bosses.
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Re: Noob Gaiden Sigma 2

Post by Ninja Noob » Sun Dec 24, 2017 3:58 am

So, I finished Aqua Capital. Pretty tough at the beginning, then I learned how to fight the lycans properly, and the gaja. Vang elfs are very random though, still didn't found a consistent approach against a pack of three or four of them. Though, I have to say at this point I find this game really good. I'ts more streamlined than the original, but it let you feel in control of the enemy most of times, like when you die it's all your responsibility. It's really rewarding, I was struggling a lot on the gautlet befor the gajas in Aqua Capital, then I learned it, and I loaded my save file to replay it without saving after any fight, and was able to do the whole gauntlet without saving, in just a few tries. The gajas seemed really impossible to fight at first, then I just found the strat and again I felt in control of everything.

Now I'm at the drunken skeleton, the little skeleton scorpions can be fought legit with any weapon.

I still think vanilla is a special game, this one is more streamlined in comparison, though I'm really enjoying how the game is balanced, really tough difficulty but very fair towards the player.
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Re: Noob Gaiden Sigma 2

Post by Royta » Sun Dec 24, 2017 2:38 pm

Ninja Noob wrote:
Sun Dec 24, 2017 3:58 am
I still think vanilla is a special game, this one is more streamlined in comparison, though I'm really enjoying how the game is balanced, really tough difficulty but very fair towards the player.
Pretty much how I feel. No matter how much I play NG2, I'll always feel like I'm failing since I just get hit, in NGS2 you really feel that sense of self-improvement.
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Re: Noob Gaiden Sigma 2

Post by Ninja Noob » Tue Dec 26, 2017 3:15 am

ARMADILLO
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Re: Noob Gaiden Sigma 2

Post by H.Smoke » Tue Dec 26, 2017 7:27 am

Regarding the Tengu fight one of the strats I used the 1st time I was struggling was to fight one of them at time using one of Momiji's counter attacks (don't remember which one). It was really effective and relatively easy to do. The big problem was trying to keep an eye on the Tengu you were not fighting (even if it wasn't on screen) so you never get hit with the grab (I think it was one that rushes at you and throws you around).
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