Hard karma run (Ch. 6 vids up)

PLATFORM: Xbox, Xbox 360 (emulation); RELEASE: March 2004 (NGB: September 2005)

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UltraViol3nt
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Hard karma run (Ch. 6 vids up)

Post by UltraViol3nt » Wed Mar 12, 2014 3:36 am

I'm going to do a karma run, though it's probably going to be a while in the works. I'm making this thread in hopes of getting some tips/info. First, I was wondering if anyone still has the end chapter limits/requirements. I know hard mode in particular has some rough time limits so those are what I mainly need, but any other info is welcome/appreciated.

What I'm really hoping for is some vids, somewhere. I don't think any exist anymore, but I'm still hoping. Anyone know where I might find some?

Been finishing up a casual hard playthrough because I still don't even have VH unlocked. Almost through it, then I'll probably start on chapter 1, which is still fairly straightforward iirc.

Chapter 1 : 616,130
Chapter 2: 754,470
Chapter 3: 799,850
Chapter 4: 679,620
Chapter 5: 888,060
Chapter 6: 1,969,310

Chapter 1 Tutorial:

Chapter 2 Tutorial:

Chapter 3 Tutorial:

Chapter 1 Dual Comm:

Chapter 2 Dual Comm:

Chapter 3 Dual Comm:

Chapter 4 Dual Comm:

Chapter 5 Dual Comm:

Chapter 6A Dual Comm:

Chapter 6B Dual Comm:

Chapter 6 Archive Challenge:
Last edited by UltraViol3nt on Tue May 06, 2014 3:49 am, edited 16 times in total.
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Re: Hard karma run

Post by Bigalski » Wed Mar 12, 2014 12:03 pm

Hard - Time - Kills
CH1 - 11:00 - 61
CH2 - 12:00 - 48
CH3 - 12:00 - 49
CH4 - 15:00 - 49
CH5 - 14:00 - 56
CH6 - 56:00 - 255
CH7 - 30:00 - 242
CH8 - 20:00 - 60
CH9 - 22:00 - 87
CH10 - 45:00 - 468
CH11 - 19:00 - 50
CH12 - 1:18:00 - 283
CH13 - 42:00 - 276
CH14 - 13:00 - 191
CH15 - 25:00 - 380


I still have my Hard karma run videos from 2007. I took them down from Youtube because it references IW's old site. People have been asking me to put them back up so I guess I could if you wanted to see them. I really wasn't going for a full karma run so I miss a ton of points that you'll be able to figure out.
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Re: Hard karma run

Post by UltraViol3nt » Wed Mar 12, 2014 7:30 pm

Sweet, thanks Bigal. Your vids would probably be the perfect resource, didn't realize you still had those. If you can find the time to upload them I'd certainly be thankful, but there is no rush as I'm sure just chapter one will probably take me a week. I'm playing NG2 as well so that I have something to switch to when I get too frustrated. I'd rather take my time with this instead of cracking my head against the wall repeatedly like I did on my MN run (which ended at Ch. 6, unsurprisingly).

Btw, if the IW logo really bothers you and you can't figure out how to get rid of it, you could always make a separate channel. It's quite easy to make another one that is linked to your current one. You could call it "R.I.P. IW Realm" or something. Just a thought.
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Re: Hard karma run

Post by reim0027 » Thu Mar 13, 2014 2:58 am

Here's my hard KR vids. I had a decent score, but you can tell I'm not a polished KR vet (I did it a LONG time ago). https://www.mediafire.com/folder/rlgku6 ... _Karma_Run
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Re: Hard karma run

Post by UltraViol3nt » Thu Mar 13, 2014 3:32 am

Thanks, Reim! I will definitely utilize these. I'd still like to see Bigal's since he has all the commentary in there, but this alone is pretty much all I need. It's really too bad we don't have the old discussion threads for karma runs. Tons of useful info in those.

Oh and I'm no karma-running vet, either. Particularly for chapters 6-16, I know I'm going to have to basically learn everything for the first time on those.

Thoughts so far: I managed 257k for the first gauntlet, but I'm still trying to improve that. I may end up using that score though. The biggest obstacle is really the first fight; since I figured how to get a full UT I'm inclined to include that method but I probably only manage it about 10% of the time. Every other fight is pretty straightforward.

I'm not necessarily going for the top score, but if it seems feasible I might. It's nice to have the current chapter records handy but without vids I'm not going to know how they were managed. The good thing is I'm recording the run so that shouldn't be a problem for anyone in the future.
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Re: Hard karma run

Post by Bigalski » Thu Mar 13, 2014 6:12 am

Reim had a better score than I did plus I'm sure the 7 year old commentary from my videos is really outdated for what you want to do. You can also watch some of Balbaid's MN karma run and get some up to date tips that you can apply to your run.

All I can say for sure is that the low health UF is your friend and use the shuriken shortcuts in CH7 to help make the time limit.
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Re: Hard karma run

Post by UltraViol3nt » Thu Mar 13, 2014 8:26 am

I was mainly interested in your commentaries for what you had to say about making the chapter time limits. I can figure it out on my own, it'd just make things a bit easier.

For instance, I believe I've hit my first snag. I've managed 266k by the first save, but I'm pretty sure if I use it I won't make the chapter time limit. I screwed up and had to backtrack which cost me like 30 seconds, plus I backtracked to use crow's essence for the 7th fight. Those two things combined are putting me around a minute behind Reim, and he only managed to clear the chapter with 1:04 to spare. I'm going to do a test run tomorrow to see if I can finish it, but my guess is I'll be about 30 seconds off or so.

What a shame. I thought I wouldn't have to worry about the time limit in chapter 1 but apparently I do. Only good thing is I've figured out how to get a UT on the first fight about 80% of the time (assuming I get a blue essence, which I seem to get about 75% of the time). Should make things a lot easier.
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Re: Hard karma run

Post by balbaid » Thu Mar 13, 2014 11:35 am

Here's my videos if you need another one. :smile:

https://www.mediafire.com/folder/8w20yz ... txx/shared

I didn't do all the chapters on videos though. And this is my first run, not the last one.
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Re: Hard karma run

Post by reim0027 » Thu Mar 13, 2014 1:20 pm

Yeah, the Time Limits are strict. In some cases, you have to plan your movements very specifically. I did a lot of mock run throughs in some chapters to make sure I was going to make the time limit. I would go to fights, wait for the timer to count down, then move on to the next fight and so on until I beat the chapter (to see what the EoC time was).
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Re: Hard karma run

Post by UltraViol3nt » Thu Mar 13, 2014 8:25 pm

Perfect, thanks balbaid. So you improved your chapter score by 10k...lol. Just goes to show how far ahead of things you were even back then. This is very useful - now I know that my first save is barely 1k above your old score, so I think I'll just start fresh this time and see if I can't improve the score more. Since my save is likely screwed up anyway this works out nicely.

I am definitely getting tired of running the first gauntlet though. What an extraordinary PITA it is. Will be glad when I'm all done, the rest of the chapter should be a breeze comparatively.
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Re: Hard karma run

Post by UltraViol3nt » Fri Mar 14, 2014 9:14 am

Bah! Still not past the first gauntlet. I have only 260k at the first save now, but at least I am good on time. I'll use it if I have to, but I'm not quite done yet. I should be thoroughly irritated by now but I'm actually really enjoying it. It's amazing the perfection required to get a score good enough to contend for the HS. The little things I've learned to increase success rates of various fights just blow my mind because it shows that this is by far the deepest action game I've ever played.

I have some fairly interesting "new" strats to squeeze out extra points but they're not exactly reliable.

For instance, fights where one might be inclined to use the chucks, I'm using the DS instead. The good thing about the chucks is that they are probably the most consistent weapon to kill two enemies with one UT (besides the lunar, which you don't have initially on hard). The bad thing is they often kill 3 guys, and while consistency is good the DS allows for more points if you manage your essence correctly. I have this method of using the DS UT to kill one enemy and weaken another by redirecting it, so that I can kill the second enemy with a regular attack and hopefully get a blue essence. I try to time my jumps so that I'm entering OL status while the enemy is in his death animation. I can use that one yellow essence from the UT to charge an ET, then if I see a blue essence I release the ET, so that I can immediately do another UT. If I see a yellow essence I just absorb it and release another UT, starting the process over. Hopefully that made sense, lol.

Yes, it's a pain, and a bit insane, which is why I probably won't get the score I want. But I'm trying - it would certainly make one hell of a video.
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Re: Hard karma run

Post by Bigalski » Fri Mar 14, 2014 10:41 am

Just don't burn yourself out getting chapter 1 the way you want it and then not go one with the rest of the run. :x I've seen that happen a few times before. :razz:
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Re: Hard karma run

Post by reim0027 » Fri Mar 14, 2014 1:12 pm

Ah, I remember the first gauntlet in Ch 1. The goal was to get it perfect. Drove me crazy.
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Re: Hard karma run

Post by UltraViol3nt » Thu Mar 20, 2014 6:22 am

Well I'm finally moving forward. I'm just over 5k points ahead of balbaid's old score for the first gauntlet, and I was 4k ahead 4 days ago. I'll have to find 6k more points just to match his new score, which almost certainly isn't going to happen. I've put quite a bit of time into it, and any more would be overdoing it so I'll be satisfied with whatever I get at this point. It's kind of a shame, because I feel like I was resetting more than I was playing the game almost. My insistence on starting the run with a UT was just a wasted effort really. I should've gone for other points, but it feels so nice to start the run off ahead. I actually tracked how successful I was with the first fight and it was roughly 50%.

I do know where remaining points are in the first gauntlet, but to get them and to have everything else go your way is probably a 1/500 chance or something. I've actually decided to do a tutorial for the first chapter where I show every fight done perfectly and break down how to do it, as well as alternate/acceptable outcomes. I've got the footage already so it's just a matter of splicing it together and doing the commentary. I will upload my run as well ofc, but it'll likely just be gameplay.

Going to start on the rest of the chapter now, hopefully it doesn't take too long.
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Re: Hard karma run

Post by reim0027 » Thu Mar 20, 2014 1:18 pm

Is your tutorial going to be with commentary?
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Re: Hard karma run

Post by UltraViol3nt » Thu Mar 20, 2014 3:50 pm

Definitely. Commentary is necessary, because to go for some of these points events have to unfold very specifically. There are probably literally only 10k more points than what I've managed in the first gauntlet, which is crazy when you consider that it's 8 consecutive fights.

I calculate a possible 11k more points in the rest of the chapter. 9k involve landing one-hit UT's on Murai's minions as well as UT's on Murai himself. Sounds like fun, right? Probably even harder is the extra 2k points I see in the fight right before him, which is where I'm at now. In fact I'm unsure if those 2k are even possible, but I'm giving it a whirl. It's just really irritating having to drag the essence every time you want to do the fight.

I also calculate infinite evil within balbaid's heart for pitting others against his scores. :flame:

Oh, I thought I'd mention that me burning out on this run is highly unlikely. My MN run ended only because of NG2 coming out and the fact that I lost the run when my old 360 died. As long as my 360 doesn't die I will finish this run. It could take a few months but I'll get it done.
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Re: Hard karma run

Post by balbaid » Thu Mar 20, 2014 5:08 pm

Can't wait to see your run, UV. It's always entertaining to watch karma run videos.

Best of luck on the run. Hard KR is really the best karma run in the game. No room for lurking and wasting time.
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Re: Hard karma run

Post by reim0027 » Fri Mar 21, 2014 3:05 am

And, there is less UT/ET farming, due to the limited time too.
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Re: Hard karma run

Post by UltraViol3nt » Fri Mar 21, 2014 8:51 am

Tell me about it. The freaking time limit has already given me a heart attack. I guess I just took too long preparing essence to chain into fights, and I didn't manage my health well enough for the strat I wanted to use against Murai. I had no idea I was so close to the time limit that I literally had to shave seconds off of my Murai fight to make the chapter limit. The first time I got a good score I made the limit by one second, and my final run I made it by six. My score is 1,050 points below balbaid's, which I think is as it should be, considering I beat his old score by a mere 1k last time. There MIGHT be 2k more points in the Murai fight but my fight is possibly perfect. Depends on if Murai's health could've withstood a -->Y if one of my previous blows didn't connect, because if only one shot was needed to spawn the last wave of minions it might've been possible. I don't know and I don't care to test it, because it's extremely difficult just to get another opportunity.

Truly intense with that time limit. I basically had to kill Murai right around ten seconds left to ensure I would make the limit, and those are ten seconds I really needed to make the fight more manageable. I had like zero room for error, especially since 4 shurikens could kill me and you have to let your guard down constantly fighting Murai. No time for any elixirs and no time to even switch weapons beyond my initial swap from the lunar to the DS.

Anyway, I am very satisfied with this score. It's hard to appreciate just how crazy some records are until you have a go at them yourself. Anyone attempting to break balbaid's score is going to have to go into Ninja-zen mode.

Vid should be up soon, and I'll probably do the tutorial tomorrow.

EDIT: Sadly, the Murai fight is not perfect and there are indeed 2k extra points to be had. But I ain't gettin' em!
Last edited by UltraViol3nt on Sat Mar 22, 2014 7:50 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Hard karma run

Post by UltraViol3nt » Fri Mar 21, 2014 10:30 am

Here is the run: [youtube]
[/youtube]
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Re: Hard karma run (Ch.1 vid is up)

Post by Dark Hazuki » Fri Mar 21, 2014 11:03 am

Nice vid, thanks for posting. :thumb:

I bet your heart was pounding at the end. Mine was and I was only watching! :scared:
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Re: Hard karma run (Ch.1 vid is up)

Post by reim0027 » Fri Mar 21, 2014 1:21 pm

Yeah, there is no screwing around in a Hard KR. I used to to "time tests" for some of the chapters. I would go to fights, leave when the timer was done and go to the next fight until the chapter was over to see where I was at.
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Re: Hard karma run (Ch.1 vid is up)

Post by Bigalski » Fri Mar 21, 2014 3:05 pm

Nice video. Where's the commentary? I thought you said you were going to do it.
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Re: Hard karma run (Ch.1 vid is up)

Post by Marsbar » Fri Mar 21, 2014 4:03 pm

Wow! Very nice.

It never occurred to me that you could kill that first crow using the sword to start of with a UT!
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Re: Hard karma run (Ch.1 vid is up)

Post by Bigalski » Fri Mar 21, 2014 4:09 pm

Marsbar wrote:It never occurred to me that you could kill that first crow using the sword to start of with a UT!
Killing the first crow is just for show and doesn't carry to the first fight. He uses the chucks to kick the first guy off the ledge and that's the essence he uses for the UT on the second guy.

That would have been explained in some commentary! :razz: :razz: :D :bolt: I'd be more than happy to do some some duel commentary with you UV or I'm sure some other members would be as well.
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